Beginning bloggers (myself included) are just a tad too eager to bend over and take it for eyeballs. We’re a narcissistic bunch of traffic whores. This is understandable, I suppose. Nobody wants to fail and everyone wants to find an audience as quickly as possible. Everyone wants their words valued and their ideas spread and their reputations grown because everything we write reflects the deepest analyses of our own life experience. This isn’t just about lifestyle design and it’s not just about how to help you, the reader (although I hope many people can be helped by reading it).
This is about the journey we all find ourselves in and the never ending tension of “getting there.”
How List Posts Rape Your Soul
It’s been nearly three months since I’ve started this little experiment. When I started to blog about my experiences and the things that have worked for me, I had the highest of hopes that people would care. Did I believe they would? No. They hadn’t before. I wasn’t sure why this time would be any different.
But, miraculously, Wage Slave Rebel found an audience and I now find myself in the odd position of having a small following that continues to grow every day.
Since WSR has taken off, I’ve done a lot of growing myself and it’s time for me to start writing to you as adults and adventurers and revolutionaries. Here’s the truth: No amount of reading can ever get you where you want to go, least of all list posts.
List posts are tantamount to those “inspirational” gift books they sell beside greeting cards. You know, the ones that have a leaf on the cover, maybe dotted with a couple raindrops, and a corny title like “Hope from Above.” When you get it (especially if life isn’t working out so well for you) you’re initially pretty excited, pretty hopeful. You think, “Wow, maybe something in here can help me out of the shitty place I’m in.”
When you open it up, you’re met with a series of out-of-context, vaguely motivational Bible verses that span whole pages in a 48-point font. It takes you a total of eight minutes to read the entire “book.” By the end, maybe you do feel a little inspired, but you mostly feel shafted.
That’s the list post. They get you excited about the things you want to do, they get you excited for life, but they don’t give you anything to grow on or to really think about. This is why they are so popular for both bloggers and their readers. They take little effort to write and just as much effort to read. But, in the end, how much did the top five travel videos inspire you to start saving up for your own trip? How much more productive were you able to become after reading what tools others use to be more productive? Did anything change? Maybe you picked up a gem here or there, but is your life significantly different?
Here’s the problem. Lists rape you of your humanity. They attempt to take our irrational and poetic nature and turn it into binary. Do this, don’t do that, eat this, don’t eat that, use this, don’t use that. But things aren’t black and white and, more importantly, there’s no such thing as a blanket solution. There’s no set list of things that every person can do and accomplish all of their goals.
Our unified theory, as lifestyle designers and lifehackers, is this finding of our processes. How can we do what we love, where we want and when we want? No list can ever answer that. And worse, I think lists are detrimental to our journey. They oversimplify a beautiful chaos.
For me, there has to be more meat and less fluff, more profundity and less triteness. I can’t write a five step plan that gets you where you want to go. I can’t even write a five step plan that gets me where I want to go.
And I’m starting to think there’s not even a destination.
The Never Ending Tension of Getting There
Our definition of “there” is always changing. When I was at college I just dreamed of having a job. When I had a 9-5 I just wanted to be freelance. Now that I’m freelance I just want to be location independent.
We live with this constant tension of not being who we were meant to be. Even though I’m what I thought I wanted, there’s so much more. I’m content with where I’m at, but I’m not satisfied. I likely never will be and it’s likely you never will be either.
We crave change and constant challenge.
The point of all this is to say that Wage Slave Rebel will no longer be a bastion of the conventional and unimaginative, but instead a facilitator of organic growth and a leading participant in the conversation. I hope the successes and failures of my journey can help inspire and encourage others and I hope, also, to be inspired and encouraged by WSR’s readers.
So, with that, I bid farewell to bullshit list posts, hackneyed how-to’s and whatever methods of “post-marketing” don’t contribute significantly to our journey.
Related posts
- Well-Intentioned Liars
- Screwing Around at 4AM: A Video Post
- Five Blogs To Keep You Motivated On Your Journey To Freedom
- Slavery of the Mind
- How Not To Handle The Hard Times
Hey, I'm JD. I'm a writer, web designer and contrarian entrepreneur. Wage Slave Rebel is a place where I (and others) explore alternative and ethical ways to earn a living apart from the corporate hierarchy. The goal of this site is to help people escape wage slavery and start reaping the full rewards of their skills and passions. 
Hey J.D. I can't agree more. I had a few list posts very early on in my blog, but I quickly outgrew them. What would have previously been a 5 point list post now becomes 5 complete posts. Occasionally, I'll need to have a list of points in a post , but they aren't the main focus of the post. Thanks for vindicating my disdain of list posts.
"Wage Slave Rebel will no longer be a bastion of the conventional and unimaginative, but instead a facilitator of organic growth and a leading participant in the conversation."
A bold and admirable move. I'm excited about this post, and about the commitment you're making. After initial excitement, I've been quickly disenchanted with current content on personal development/lifestyle design/etc.. It seems to favor quick sets of "instructions" over what people really need: the reminder to get in touch with themselves, and find their own path through life.
It's thrilling to see someone committed to honoring the chaos, to living in creative tension. Brilliant!
I think lists posts are good and bad. Bad for many of the reasons you gave. But all also good for drawing readers to your more in-depth articles. I have a tough time balancing between list posts and regular topic posts so that is definitely something I need to focus on. I would rather write an in-depth article 100 times over a list post but sometimes I need to give my readers what they want to grow in that niche. I shouldn't bend over backwards, but I do and I know it. I am just looking down the road to when I am possibly half as big as Leo Babauta and don't have to write lists posts.
Dave LifeExcursion & The Minimalist Path
JD -
I can't tell you how excited this post made me. I completely back up your view of list posts. I can understand the need as a blogger to organize thoughts in a simple nature, but where's the content? I used lists for my own benefit in making sure my thoughts stay relatively close to a straight line (usually unsuccessfully), but I don't print them. The points aren't what are important, my readers read my posts because of what I have to say about those points. (At least, that's the goal since I'm new to this whole blogging realm.)
It's far more inspiring and fulfilling to be grabbed in by the first line of someone's post and carried through to the end by engaging and stimulating content. I don't even read list posts. I glance down the screen, see if there's anything I haven't seen before (usually not) and I move on, wondering if there's anything I can comment about the post.
Fire me up! Engage me! Captivate me! (Not to throw all this pressure on you JD, but I'm excited to read what you have to write now).
It's great that you wrote this, because it saved me the trouble of pissing off the list-loving blogosphere (I actually had a very similar topic next on my roster of things to write about…check!).
In any case, I do agree that lists tend to be an easy way out. In some cases they are the best way to present information, and I imagine now that you've publicly criticized them you'll come across a few topics that you'll want to use them for (Murphy's Law!), but I personally do like to see well thought out, meaty, substantial posts over the tidbit-sized impulse-purchased pocket-wisdom that you described so well.
I didn't realize how much I use lists until now. Thanks for the wake up call! I'm not a huge fan of them most of the time, but I write them… how much sense does that make?
Thanks man, you continue to inspire.
Hey J.D., I have to say I am fixing to get all Kanye with my capitol letters in defense of lists posts.
Here's what I think list posts can accomplish: (in list form) <ul id="bullets">
Really like your blog and style. I'll be back for more! Take Care, Jill
Jill's latest post is sort of a list : Your Lips Are Moving But….com
This post isn't about list posts as much as it's about writing about concepts that don't "require more long form to be impactful." Too many bloggers put no thought into the concepts they are writing about and, worse, treat people as if everything can be easily accomplished in a few easy steps.
I'm not against useful lists though and I'm not against people using list posts. I'm against people defaulting to list posts or submitting to list posts just for traffic.
JD, you almost made me spit out my tea and ruin my computer. This post is a big liability, you know that, right? LOL. Well I'm telling you now.
I'm guilty of using lists in my posts (most notoriously, my 101 Ways to Discover Yourself), but I don't do it often and I like to use it to summarize my points at the end of real content. You're not alone … overusing list posts annoy me because most things in life do NOT come with an instruction booklet, and list posts give off that vibe as you've said. Real personal growth and real life is vague as hell. The good stuff you get from it is a reward for experimenting and your willingness to jump in when you don't know what the hell you're doing.
Good stuff, JD.
How list post rape your soul. Made me smile.
Ooh, this hit me where it hurts.
I've used lists fairly regularly on my own blog and I do feel that in some situations they are appropriate, but there is a lack of substance that I've felt, and when I write an essay that isn't a list post, but a collection of coherent thoughts properly worded, it feels more special and often receives a more positive response.
I do think lists are great for capturing attention though. You give new readers a jolt of inspiration, causing them to dive deeper into your articles and discover the more substantial value.
I don't see a problem with using list posts as a springboard to the reading of more substantial posts. I've just gotten so tired of reading them that I don't want any part of it. That's not to say I won't change my mind, but for the time being I'm going to try and go a little more in depth and philosophical.
I love your blog, though! I wasn't picking on anyone in particular with this post, least of all you.
Heh, no worries. I didn't take it personally. I can see your argument and just a couple of hours before I read this I was thinking of how many posts I'd read, been motivated by but then never took any action on. And obviously by the response this article has got proves that some extra thought and non-list can go a long way in engaging readers.
(I apologize if HTML doesn't work in this comment!)
Great discussion going on here.
I can certainly wrap my head around the type of list you reference in the post. I see them every day. They feel so predictable and cliché. But, I have to challenge you (and a lot of commenters) on this one, do all lists generate such similarly negative emotions? Really?
Yes, some lists are listlessly dull–how's THAT for alliteration! They lack imagination and direction. They lack complexity, fluidity, basically everything we all tend to dislike about "bad" blog posts in general. Some lists though, if written in the right way, can stand remarkably in their own special light, not as just-another-list but as an engaging, informative, well-composed and crafted and honed piece of BLOG. For example, many of Chris Guillebeau's and Tim Ferriss' best posts–two bloggers I imagine many of you all enjoy–are written in list form. I know personally that Guillebeau's 28 Things I Wish I Knew Before I Started Traveling resonated quite strongly with me, so much so that I started subscribing to his blog immediately. It's been 18 months since I read that first post, and since then I've enjoyed nearly everything Chris has written.
It's false logic to think that all lists can be categorized as good or bad, and it appears that many commenters are too quick to assume that lists have mostly negative attributes. If the content of a blog post leaves me feeling any kind of happiness (by means of information, emotion, etc.)–then I don't care how it's formatted. Sometimes a list will help achieve that happiness, and sometimes it will impede it. A list, for me at least, is a tool, not a determinant.
What do you guys think?
The one thing I completely dig about lists – they make it quicker for me to sift through content and decide whether or not I want to keep reading
It's true that if something leaves you feeling any kind of happiness, it's not wholly worthless. However, the standard by which I'm judging list posts isn't on the resulting happiness, but the resulting action, whether that's thought or movement. Too many blogs are pushing "Quick and Happy" because with all this competition for attention that's all that really pulls in the eyeballs. I'm taking a stance against that. I want to, if I can, make readers uncomfortable and restless and thoughtful.
I know a lot of people enjoy "Quick and Happy" and there's nothing at all wrong with that. But it's become this cancer that jumps from one blog to the next eating away the depth of our experiences and condensing them into utter bullshit. "Quick and Happy" should stay, but it shouldn't be so prevalent. More bloggers need to offer up something meaty, at least occasionally.
I think this post would have resonated stronger with me had there been a more specific example of what kind of "list" you're referring to. The attacking begins so promptly that I hardly had time to think about the particulars of your argument.
As for judging list posts on the "thought or movement" initiated by the reader–is that even possible? One person's words will inspire another person's actions in completely different ways. And that inspiration lies not just in "meaty posts," but through video posts, through images, and yes, sometimes through "Quick and Happy" lists. Look at <ahref="http://zenhabits.net/2008/07/the-beginners-guide-to-zen-habits-a-guided-tour/" target="_blank">Zen Habits by Leo Babauta. Do you really think all of his self-help-ish, "Quick and Happy" posts are so weak at pushing others to better their lives?
I'm still surprised that so many commenters can cache "list posts" into such a negative pool of content. I refuse to claim that I'll stop writing list posts. I refuse to believe that they are inherently poor at engaging and motivating readers to take action.
I can't measure thought or movement particularly well, but the same can be said about happiness. In the end it comes down to feedback, both by way of comments and Twitter. By commenting on this post and debating whether or not list posts are valuable, you've already increased the value of WSR for me. List posts get comments like "Great post! I really needed to read this!" and that's it. There's no real thought.
To answer your questions, my concern isn't so much with inspiring people. Inspiring could, in theory, lead to action. And it might have with some of my list posts. But I think that more in-depth posts which lead to deep self-examination and debate have much more value.
I love Zen Habits, but that's because Leo typically doesn't write list posts. He isn't afraid to dig into philosophical or spiritual concepts. The page you link to is a compilation of the most popular posts. They are mostly list posts. List posts will always be more popular because they don't involve so much thought and leave readers feeling happy rather than uncomfortable or convicted. It's true that these posts have most definitely pushed others to better their lives, but I'm not in Leo's position. I wasn't one of the first and I'm not the biggest. I didn't have the opportunity to 'develop' and 'popularize' the list post. I only have the opportunity to lazily copy it.
I'm not asking you or anyone else to stop enjoying list posts or to stop writing them, just that I'm sick of reading them and I don't want to contribute to this attention deficit culture.
I like it
There's a nice Paul Graham post here about why lists of n things don't serve the writer or the reader as well as they should. Sample quote: "The greatest weakness of the list of n things is that there's so little room for new thought."
I'm guilty of having blogged lists of n things, but having read your post and Paul Graham's, I'm going to try damn hard to avoid 'em in future. I agree with some of the commentary above about lists making it easy for the reader to pick out the key points, but I think this can be done in other ways, such as intelligent formatting and — whisper it — good writing.
Keep stirring it up!
For Chris and others above who've mentioned it, I want to be clear. I'm not against lists as typographic devices to enhance readability. I'm against list posts that attempt to break down complex topics into hokey step-by-step guides or provide ineffective distractions. I'll still be using lists, but only as a means for conveying profound concepts more clearly.
Excellent! And quite right. It's amazing how many blogs about unconventional living and PERSONAL development are starting to look and sound exactly the same; style over substance with nothing new to say – it's slowly killing my interest in the blogosphere.
And I'll tell you another thing that's not helping the media – bloggers commenting on blogs just to drive traffic to their own blogs. That's not contributing to a discussion about anything, it's just whoring yourself about to boost your numbers.
Naturally bloggers may read more blogs than some as it's their chosen field, but there are too many people trawling popular blogs with their own marketing agenda who couldn't give a toss about the article they're commenting on.
Kristin said above:
"I glance down the screen, see if there's anything I haven't seen before (usually not) and I move on, wondering if there's anything I can comment about the post."
Why would you want to comment on an article you haven't read? No offence to Kristin as she did have a genuine comment about this article but if you go to somewhere like Zenhabits, every other comment is from a personal development blogger saying something like:
"Hey awesome post Leo. You rock. I really liked what you said about (insert bullet point title). It's something I've been thinking about recently and, in fact (in an amazing and completely coincidental way, which is the only reason I mention it) I posted something vaguely to do with this last week on my blog at http://www.thispersonaldevelopmentbloggingseemslikeaneas...
I wonder is it possible that the only people that read blogs are bloggers – kind of like the Anarchists Council in G. K. Chesterton's "The Man Who Was Thursday" which ended up being composed entirely of undercover policemen!
So good for you J.D for standing up for having something to say and taking on the bullshitters. I've subscribed as a result of this post and am looking forward to getting some articles containing content in my reader for a change. Many Thanks
I totally agree, list posts are annoying – especially in the nuanced world of personal development, where reality (and what works) is very diverse, and where guiding people to change the way they think is more of an art than a science or procedure you can follow to the letter. List posts take rich ideas and reduce them to 5-step processes and that sort of thing. And then the stuff that really matters, like your values and guiding principles behind using the ideas – that's all left out. One of the reasons for this is because people tend to digg/ stumble list posts more, so bloggers pander to this, but another big reason is just that the bloggers themselves have a pretty superficial understanding of their subject, so they don't even realise that they're leaving crucial stuff out. List posts train people to scan, and I've noticed when I've guest posted on certain blogs that do a lot of list posts, the readers spend minimal time on my site when they click through – possibly because I don't write list posts. This kind of traffic isn't valuable – it's just numbers. Quality traffic is when people actually read your stuff and start to engage.
Thanks for highlighting an important issue.
Cath
Cath. I have to disagree…kind of. I believe guiding people to change might be more of an art, or a delicate procedure but the actual changing is very systematic. In fact it's completely systematic, rule driven and pragmatic…so I'd be careful to throw out the baby with the bath water here. Once you have engaged readers…they already trust you and want your content, they want a next step on changing, which can be delivered well with bullet points.
Good gracious! Someone finally said what I have been thinking for the last three months, AMEN. Coincidentally I started working on my first list post this week. However, it's going to be a list post with a twist.
Keep up the great work and the out-of-box approach, it's awesome.
-Dena Evolution
Love the idealism that comes through in your writing. You lay it all out there, openly and honestly. Glad I'm not the only one that feels that way.
You know what's worse than a list post? List posts that tell you to write list posts
Interesting take JD. I think your commitment to the ideal is wonderful, but I think if you look deeper you are more concerned with quality content than you are bullet points. Most, probably %90 of people don't really review what they say…and so bullet point lists especially highlight that they are just bullet pointing crap.
It's a statistically fact most people reading on the internet because of the nature of the internet scan pages, they don't read thoroughly. The most nonsense you have on a page, the more they have to scan through…quality is the deciding factor, not a structure like bulletpoints. I think your post points out and your readers especially that they are fed up with reading the same junk over and over, and having wade through lists to get to any relevant info…lets all strive to write better!
but of course that doesn't apply to comments which are written without much review…such as represented by the horrible grammar above. heh.
That's what so frustrating about so many blogs out there. They live the dream, but their business is telling you how to live the dream. It feels like some kind of pyramid scheme How many people do we need to tell us how to do exactly what they're doing?
I dont really know what you talking about here. This cant be the only way to think about this can it? It appears like you understand a great deal, so why not explore it a lot more? Make it a lot more accessible to everyone else who may not concur with you? Youd get a great deal more individuals behind this should you just stopped making general statements.